Good afternoon in Germany and good evening in Vietnam today. We have a very interesting presentation
Again, we had some problems with this technical set up for which I would like to apologize
Our distinguished guest today if it's hitting on my right is dr. Minto land
She's currently a senior researcher at the Institute of philosophy
It's a Vietnamese
Academy of social sciences and was formerly a researcher at the Institute of synonym studies from
2002 to 2024
She earned her PhD in linguistics and literature from the Graduate Academy of Social Sciences in
2012
She has many awards. I cannot read them all here. But as I had given out the announcement so you can
Follow it there her research focus on to norm
comparative literature
translation studies transcultural studies and the studies oversight these minorities
Particularly over such Chinese in southern Vietnam and overseas Vietnamese in Guangxi China and overseas Vietnamese in Bangkok, Thailand
He's also works extensively on Buddhism and twin culture in East Asia
and major
Publications include a co-authored monograph with rusty slap various skin of food and University
Avaloki Keshwara of the Vietnamese say we are shine going in legend in Vietnam, Vietnam University of Education
publishing house
2021 and a book chapter in ecologies of translation in East and Southeast Asia and
University of Amsterdam press 20 to she has published over 80 scholarly articles and book chapters in Vietnamese
Chinese English and
So it is a great pleasure for me to welcome today
Dr. Ninh Thulan with a topic to know script ideology and language preservation
Preservation strategies among the king of the earth minority in southern China. Thank you very much for coming and please the floor is yours
Yes
Good afternoon everybody and good evening everyone is online and
And
This was my great honor to be here to
Give you a very
small talk about my previous research and it is an ongoing project that I haven't finished until
today and I hope that I have another opportunity to finish it
So you can see on the screen the cover photo
The cover photo was taken during our film trip in
2015 so it means it has been 10 years ago
and
behind is the center for
Reservation and research of the norm script to know culture of the king people in our city. I will explain
to you
What is my research subject later?
So you can see on the screen the three different photos and
I am included in each pictures
so our research is already is related from my personal view work on ritual performance as
village festival
Hoiling in the king communities of them that don't want to see one day China during
2009
2010 it was later expanded through a series of ethnographic surveys conducted between
2011 to
2013 in collaboration with a research team
comprising with
representatives from Vietnamese Ministry of Culture the Department of Culture of Guangxi province and the Chinese University of Hong Kong and
This investigation led to the foundation of all the development of a research project
funded by the Vietnamese government and the leadership of Dr.
Nguyen that will be at who in the central of the central picture with the support of Dr. Mui Guo Leng
Who was at that time?
a master's student at Yunnan University
and
The key outcomes of this project was an article first published in Vietnamese in
2015 it was subsequently translated revised
multiple times and republished in edited volumes and academic journals in China and in Taiwan
In addition the project's research assistant
Utilized few work materials of the project to complete a master's thesis at the Yunnan University in
2018 and published an article in Vietnam so you can find the articles to know more about our research because you know
We only have
Very short time here and I cannot explain the whole image of our
research
and
please find on the YouTube a
Book grant documentary program by vtv4 in 2020
I
Accepted an invitation of them to serve as a consultant for the documentary on the Qing community of Tham Dao
The three islands the program was produced with an a commendable quality and offered viewers
Relatively accurate
portrayal of this community
Countering the early misleading narratives, so I would explain to you about the misleading
narratives about the
And I
Also want to
Emphasize that this presentation Danos approach the topic from a linguistic analytical perspective because I think it's very
Narrow it's a very narrow field
And I would love to talk much more about the
Language situation approach to better
Elucidic the status of Qing language within a Manti
multi-lingual context
Do you
So the first sections of my presentation today is
some overview about king minority in Tung Shing, China because I don't think that we all know about a
group a king group in in China for
for now
so my our
Research subject is the king ethnic ethnic group called King Tuk
Alging zu
Recognized as one of the 50 official ethnic minorities in China. So, you know, there is a
Analogous to the hua
Or Han Chinese zentokhua or zentokhan
which is
officially
Recognized as one of the 53 ethnic minorities group in Vietnam. So, you know, we have a king
Zentok king in China and we have zentokhan in in Vietnam
and
they
busy on the
Maps
The king ethnic group primarily reside in the three villages of Voodoo
V and symptom
Commonly referred to as the
King Tuk Tunda the three islands of King ethnic group as well as the surrounding
villages of the Hong Kong and Tuk Tuk
They are located in and around
Dong Hoon City a county-level city Dong Shing in Chinese
Jiang Ping, Zhang Bingtao and Fang Chenggan, Fang Tenggan city
Prefecture-level city within the Guangxi Trong autonomous region of China who took Cheeks and Tuk Chua
This community consists of
descendants of Vietnamese migrants who travel mostly in Vietnam by
See over several centuries the earliest documented migrations date back to the 16th century
Are resonating from coastal areas of northern Vietnam
The Tunda or three islands region where this group of King people first settled and cultivated land has
historically been a John of constructed
sovereignty at times considered part of Vietnam and at other times under the Chinese control
so
Here I use the norm of the
moving border line
because
This I see on the screen the constant convention
constant
I'm so sorry because my French is very poor. Actually, my friend is zero. So
We'll now go some or close down until the constant convention
that
80-87
the the earliest
agreement
Delinating the land border between Vietnam and China recognized the Mong Kai area as belonging to Vietnam and
the Jiang Ping areas as a part of China
It was only after this convention that this community officially became an ethnic minority within China
It's not needed as the King ethnic youth in
1950 rather than being referred to previously as animist
Salty people who is out he or simply Vietnam meet
So that's the reason why I use the norm of moving border life because the community is stay still and the border is moving
So that's the reason why I mentioned to in the previous slides that that they are moving within the
coastal line of Vietnam is not something like
migrated from
From this country to another country
This is the only ethnic group in China among the minorities whose lead
Lightly hood is based on the sea
We call II hi, we shunned the high young into zen top
Zentok
God I think being vast on you don't give you
This is the only ethnic group. We just see a characteristic in in China
The King people in don't see no home today can be described by the three many characteristic
The first one is language. They speak the King Vietnamese and I wait the only a few things
Second script they used to known for writing and I will explain later
Why they used to know for writing rather than Vietnam it romanize writing system like today
The second round as of the third one is cultural. They were the tradition outside
Play the damn bow
One string is German perform half good in communal communal songs
produce a few sources and
engage in
Engage in seafood or farming and fishing among
among other
Among other cultural practice
So what I would love to
To talk today is with a variety of King language is being referred. It is the
Standard Vietnamese or this a king dialect and which which dialect that king was the king was
So you can see on the screen a paper of a Chinese scholar
Based on a survey conducted in to start in
1980 to
1981
Identify three linguistic situations within the King ethnic community in the area
so asked he refers to
the
King of
the meeting speak
speaking only Chinese and
He means Chinese is
Cantonese
Yeah, yeah
Yeah, Chinese are
Using both King and Chinese languages
Interchangeably and speaking only game many children under seven years old and
the elderly so that mean
Yours and the the other one speak Chinese or both King and Chinese
so he use a term of
The new system of policy a song which a a song which
The use of the term in this contact is inaccurate as the bingo
imperialism has a never been
Institutionalized through the government policy of formal education
the linguistic situation in this region and with the king language in particular is much more complex and how
It was complex. I will explain to you now
So in the full look up in Vietnam, it's a dialect ology first published in our nine
1980
89 a professor one picture were very famous
Vietnamese linguistic scholar
influenced by a prevailing views of migration and
cultural
conservation within this community of youth that the king language in this area had developed
independently and in parallel with Vietnamese in Vietnam over the past
500 years to this to this day until today
Linguistic studies on the king ethnic group by Chinese scholars have not proposed any substantial
New approaches beyond this perspective. So that a reason why we we need to carry this research project
So you can see on the on the screen
the
The right one was the attack on a master at the retool a ceremony in Vietnam
who
Who was asked to read our love the text of my by written in in Han is you know
And the other one was the one day the ritual documents
so whenever
our
Interview explored that when although they speak a different
Languages in daily life, but when never they use it for the ritual they speak
all
all in king dialect
so we in this language situation existed are
three types of language languages. The first one is Vietnamese and it's both
King dialect and the standard Vietnamese being fit for
the the
Second is a papa dialect papa is the local pronunciation of by what?
Or Cantonese
Uh, and the last one was uh was the mandarin
So, uh
That's the reason why the linguistic context of the king community is far more complex than what is often assumed by academic
Preconception at this time of our field work the king people primarily used three languages
uh
um
When speaking with chinese visitors from outside the region the king would use mandarin
Uh in trade and in interaction with vietnamese
Revisitors, they would use vietnamese gradually approaching standard vietnamese
When conversing with local chinese residents, they would speak papa cantonese
Among themselves they typically use a mixture of king dialect and papa
according to local estimates
about approximately
700% of daily communication among the king is conducted in papa
however in context related to religion ritual or chalizuno performance such as singing as a community
Focusing on the oral recitation of known verse the king consistently used only their king dialect
uh
Importantly members of the king community demonstrate a clear
Metalinguistic awareness of the languages they use during our uh linguistic interviews
uh, they uh when they
certainly
spoke our
words in papa
They point they pointed out that they was uh, they were speaking in papa not king words
So that's the reason why we uh, we realized that they know very clearly what uh, which languages they
use at a time
I have made a very complicated
table
to
uh to draw
the history the historical faces of
isolation and
integration in the king community of the of the tung xing
so
Let me show you on the screen
Because it's very complicated
We have
In total three phases the first one was only for
1887
Before the constant convention
Uh, so at that time the king community's land belongs to Vietnam. It's been Vietnam nowadays
and uh at that time
The king community developed within the vietnamese community in vietnam. So it is vietnam
It was vietnam
Uh, the king dialect engaged in contact with both her dialects
We uh, we didn't have anything like standard vietnamese at that time because it's still under colonial french colonial
System and other regional vietnamese dialects and the most uh, the the most important one thing
We uh, we we all know that was hano dialect
and the second, uh, the face of uh, this was from
80 80 uh
1887 to
1949 uh
Because the eight of the 1949 was the uh was the ending of the republic of china
And it's turning to people's republic of of china
So from uh at that time vietnamese already the king community
Community has already evolved in the land in the in the land of ching dynasty
Uh at that time, uh, the the king community
Geographically separated for a minute
But they still separated from the mainland china because it's only the three islands
And they have no connection direct connection, uh to the to to the land to the mainland china
And the community's social life have been largely
consolidated from the influence of chinese political institution because during that time
a chinese chinese chinese have many old, uh problems, uh to uh
to face uh work with so, uh
At some point this piece of china, uh was uh forgot it
uh
at that time the uh
to do
regarding, uh king
Community, uh dialect it's sustained preservation of the community dialect because it
There wasn't any connection with the mainland china and limited interaction with the local
Language although there was some
uh
Some minimal connection between these uh ethnic minorities, but it was very few
so from
1950 uh until now
actually, we have to uh
separate it into
a smaller
period but uh, uh, but in uh, uh general views, uh, I only uh
cut it to form the 1950
And that is the period from under the people's republic of china. So, uh at this
at this phase
the king
The king community connected to the mainland after constructing sea backs and land
proclamation
uh
The second developed increasingly close contact with the hand
in the chinese community
uh received
a widespread monitoring education and maintaining and strengthen interactions with the vietnamese community across the border
And the extent of contest and engagement has progressed safely
are still
Uh, so because it's something
uh
That's what's missing so i'm trying to
um to explain it by uh, so
uh the at this uh
at this phase
uh the
uh the situations of king dialect is increased uh percent of the back bar and dialect within the king dialect and its role as a regional
uh, uh, linear franca
And influenced by political promoting the widespread use of standard mentoring and the requirement to use standard mentoring in official and
Administrative control and educational activities. So it means uh from this uh, based on
The connection between the king community and china
became closer and closer
so, uh
Uh, the uh, so
scholars scholars, uh from vietnam and uh from china's side
uh was uh, what
Was this discussing about what kind of or which king dialect, uh, it was
so
In in china we can find a research from one lynching
Uh, he claimed that the king dialect is closely related to the central and the south vietnamese dialect
but from the professor with one too
Uh, he claimed that the king dialect shared close
Affinity with local vernaculars of the red wheel of delta
and the most important
uh
The idea was from professor pong du chao
uh
the king dialect closely
Resembles the northern vietnamese dialect while also exhibiting certain features of central air and southern dialect
but
But this research, uh based on the uh,
Ethnological
interviews
Carried by chinese, uh scholars and vietnamese scholars use the result to
um to uh to
establish this idea so that the reason why uh, it was something that I uh, I was
mentioned previously
Pre-conception pre-conception about something move and about something isolated from from vietnam
and the
After our
our team's research on
On the linguistic or many perspective of uh linguistic
uh, we uh
We we figured out that
Uh, the king dialect shares notable
similarities with the regional dialects of nabak now something
and this
supports the hypothesis that the king ethnic community in in the
The three islands down down originated from internal migration within vietnam likely traveling by the sea
From teng hua to those certain high farm and eventually settling in the
Present date like sundown area
Uh the
The deeper
the king community
Intergates into the mandarin speaking society the greater the risk of losing the ethnic language because
Uh, this has rendered the need to preserve and transmit their native speak increasingly urgent
Moreover cross-border trade and economic exchange with vietnam have introduced another
less anticipated
In order to facilitate business and communication
Many king individuals traveling to vietnam have adopted
uh
their
They speak to be more
Intangible to the general vietnamies
especially
Specifically by approximating the standard of hano et cin
In vietnam as a result the king language faces
Pressure not only from mandarin chinese, but also from standard vietnamies
In this complex linguistic context the king community has chosen to adopt
To know as the script through which to preserve and inherit their dialect
So i'm going to the main point of my presentation today
Uh, the strategy use of to know to preserve and transmit the king language
I would like to quote uh to uh,
uh
To idea from the community
Uh, the first one according to bozi from I will mention to him later
during our interview in 2015
Uh, he quote that the king people in china are compelled to use to know
To transcribe their language the modern vietnami scripts is not a
Viable option
And the other idea
appeared
earlier five years earlier, uh from dojifun and dohai dohai the is the
the younger generation of the community
in 2010
Uh, the two-norm script of the king ethnic group historically represent the phonetic and semantic
aspects of the king language most directly and accurately
it is uh
a precious cultural heritage of the king people and
Constitutes an important component of the cultural history of the chinese nation
So
So the chinese history is not vietnami history
so
since the early
2000s
bozi phone and
His collaborators have under thickened three major, uh, intiatives
The first one they transcribe except the norm literary works from original manuscripts such as uh,
The second, uh, they employed
To norm to read a textile line traditional known verse narratives meaning very record
oral recitation and song versions of these tale from elderly members of the king community
such as
uh, teksan go su the tale of teksan
uh, since uh, 2000 and uh
2003 dojifun and his team have continued to textile like diverse oral materials
gathered from various
Informants in the king community using chunom
Uh, these were
Compiled and classified into four volumes tighter
Uh
Traditional fox songs of the king people in chunom script
Dojifun has also adapted classical chinese buddhist texts into king vernacular using chunom
For example the story of penne
Adapted from buddhist scripters on mughlian saving his mother a mughlian saving his mother. Um,
Scripter is my major
research
for now
in addition
Uh, he composed new literary works into norm
Recounting the sector and the development of the community within the area
Uh, we observe the two activities of the communities
including
And
Called the norm script hall or the norm script
uh class
functions at a local community-based
Institution for teaching to norm traditionally located within the village communal house
This was a form of spontaneous
or informal education that emerged
Pure to the establishment of school offering
instruction in the vietnamese romanized script
A letter in mandarin chinese within the king community of the tambang islands
Uh in its early stages, uh, the norm
Primarily served as a vocational training spread for ritual specialists
Who learn to read and recite ritual texts within written in chunom
in the pre in the pre uh
1949 linguistic context when the three islands, uh have minimal exposure to the chinese speaking word
And the local contact languages that ash bakwa
Are minority languages like chuan have not yet accepted a significant influence
King was the dominant spoken language and the chunom was the only writing system used to record it
alongside some literary works
In classical chinese rep with synonym hanvian pronunciation. It's not in in chinese
Madeline chinese is pronounced in in hanvian. It was not until the 1970 and the
1980s that chinese began to occupy a central position in formal
education as also
Gradually displaced in king at the community primary language of literacy and instruction
And the later the later activities were the chunom boy when ban
So no more boy when ban no literacy
Enrichment class have been established within the aim of preserving chunom by teaching it to
female ritual singers and one vietnam ritual officer of village communal hall and younger generate
Younger generation and the most
Uh interesting point of to know boy when ban
It is that they use
Multiple languages to teach to the uh to the uh to the student to the student in quotation
they
They used to know they use the quote and you used a mandarin chinese to transcribe or translate the meaning
Of each word so to the chunom boy when ban
They there was only no
chunom characters they have to use both mandarin vietam mandarin chinese and
standard vietnamese to explain the meaning of
of its context
Uh
This is something that I would love to add to my presentation and it should be interesting
uh
uh, I I would like to adopt uh, eric hoswan the
the the invention of the
tradition to talk about the inventors of tradition because there was many misleading
uh
idea or thought about this community and
Who was uh, who was the one who created it?
and I would love to uh
uh to point out uh
A figure a very um important figure within the community is dozi fuo
When I when I did the a few work at the uh at the other three islands
I usually say that I am I am wian do lan
So uh wian is uh from my father's side and do from my mother's side
So it means I I I I am at the same
family name with the main
Uh family of the within the king community. So dozi feng and tolan
So that's the reason why we consider as a family
uh and
dozi feng, uh was a very special figure and I wish that I could write a book about about him because he was a very
He was a great inventors of this community
Uh, the the inventors of the most the the the most legend about this community
a dozi feng studied vietnamese and became
before that
He he he spoke bapai
But he dozi feng studied vietnamese and became a professor
proficient in using guo during the american war of resistance kang jiang me
Because he served as an interpreter for chinese volunteer troops supporting vietnam
um
So up for retirement dozi feng invested half of his retirement funds to begin collecting story and song within the community
the uh
The the the other half of his retirement he gave to his wife
and to let his wife
Uh agree with him about his uh action. So that's very
hong muan
Action of him. Yes, please. Uh respect your wife your your partners
uh
especially when you uh
When you uh plan to do anything that cannot gain
money
so he's recognized at the
Uh initiator and a key figure in the efforts to preserve to know me
Through this work dozi feng has created a significant body of two known heritage
Xi sang to know
Xi sang van hua to know for the community
Creatively adopting many of its narratives concerning the community
Origins as well as interpretations of its culture and custom
Um
So for the first time since the day dozi feng uh
together with their uh with his
collaborators usually go uh went to vietnam to buy
Many things from vietnam and bring back to the community
and to connect with
Many institutions in vietnam and scholars in vietnam
so
uh to attract them
Uh to the to the community
And for the first time since the covet uh 19 pandemic in november
2024 a delegation including dozi feng uh and three major
members of the chun nong cultural preservation center
And a young village leader and a ganung something. Uh, some girls very beautiful was ganung
It's not me. Yeah
A female ritter singer ganung's mean female ritter singers travel to vietnam for cultural history
And to purchase items supporting community activities such as a festival costumes and musical instruments
however
During this research of this visit we observed that the elder
Uh interviewees who we conducted few study over 10 years ago may have been the last
Generation to actively preserve the
Mentally lingo nature of the pandas the king community
The jungle generation has shifted almost entirely towards use
The mattering chinese they actually they even abandon
abandon
Uh both the backfire language and the king dialect
so I we we feel so uh, uh,
so ordered to be the witness of the
Of a very uh, very special language situation of the king community
And the other inventors were scholars so scholars dangerous so
Why I I I um, I mentioned about scholar. Um, uh, when I talking about the inventor of the
The
Eventors of tradition, uh, because some chinese scholars have perhaps uh in
Effortrendly constructed new tradition with one. Uh, this a minute was really
Absorted by the community and circulated as if they were authentic cultural practice
One particularly interesting example of this is the present of the two different chinese character
with uh rendering
currently seen on the ding
Community hole in the village inhabited by the king people in dong dong both forms
Uh are in fact quite unfamiliar to the chinese no practice of the king community
So we we don't we all know in vietnam we call hoi dang
uh or
Hack or ding or hack or hack or even hack
Uh, but we can see uh on the uh on the screen
uh, the uh
The in the symptom in in the symptom communal home they used
they used uh
Uh, uh, nothing
And in the vietnam community community or whole they used uh hiding happening
uh now
So
Why does the name hiding hiding and choosing come from this is very unfamiliar with vietnamese tradition, right?
We never heard about something like, uh hiding or
or or or
choosing
so upon reading the records on the king custom, uh
edited by kuo way in, uh
1993
We suspect that these renderings and the interpretations that
Accompanies done a stem from a misleading by chinese researchers an instant of missed
Interpretation turning into a received truth through repetition
So, you know the two characters we we are rendering
happening happening cutting and choosing nothing
so the
uh these uh
The the chinese scholar suggested that these reflect to distinct words in the king language one meaning to sing
uh
And one the and the other meaning to eat
As they sound similar different only in town
however
From an insider's linguistic perspective. We know that the king works for to sing has no semantic link to eating or drinking
yeah
both
uh
ha
Option that are simply phonetic representations of the king would have to say based on the power pronunciation
so
Where both characters are pronounced that how?
Differing only slightly in town
So it's likely that king intellectuals themselves first use this character when explaining the customer
Not girding hot in vietnamese
Uh to chinese researcher who were unfamiliar with the king language
Later the chinese scholar reinterpreted these phone
Phonetic characters, especially chil which in chinese mean to eat through their own cultural linguistic framework
associating them with ritual ceremony
So this misinterpretation was repeated
Repeated by subsequent scholar and interestingly was eventually internalized by the king themselves
So when so when we went there to interview that?
Oh
What the activity was called that they called?
Martin or chilting so they repeated the chinese scholars idea
And they forgot they forgot the original original of the south
So that's the reason why I mentioned to scholar as inventors of chinese
And uh, this is my conclusion is uh, it's very
I need so I I need to read it out loud to uh, do
So the sociolinguistic context of the king community within china reveals a record
uh eruption of the king language which in turn and the
And the score the urgent need to preserve the
ancestral towns of the king ethnic world
The choice to use to known as the medium for
intergenerational transmission
Was not primarily motivated by its linguistic unity
Rather it was based on the scripts of visual and structural resemblance to the square block form of chinese characters
by
Adopting children known to preserve the king language the community asserted a visual
Textile continuity with chinese scripts the official writing system of china
This joined implicitly and precise the relationship between the king people as a subgroup and the hand
majority
In practice however this decision was driven more by a
perception of ethnic survival done by the practical consideration of script
efficiency
after all vietnamese world
Which is a romanized politics system offer a significant more price for polarity or for
Representation especially considering the uh, polyphonic nature of many
china characters
So the last conclusion is for uh, the sub studying the vietnam the king language in this
increasingly complex, uh, so uh
So so so socio or linguistic landscape reveals multiple layers layers of invented tradition
Uh, and please be aware of scholars
shared both by the internal dynamics of the community and the interventions of
external researchers
so my presentation is
And from this point, I thank you for your patience and
Thank you very much for this interesting presentation
So the family name is dole and it was relatively rare
But now I know quite a lot of people important Vietnamese people with the name of dole
to
And now I will open the floor for your
Discussion if you have any questions, I think there are many who would like to start
If not, then I start first question diane marie has written in his book in her book pirates of the south china sea
That there was a famous pirate harbor
Where the chinese
High tax the chinese
Health the vietnamese of the thai soul
To defeat the muon. What do you know? What is it today?
Something is it still there as a harbor is it populated by chinese or by vietnamese?
uh
now we uh, I have to uh
Look back at the population
Numbers of of the xanbing mother xanbing still there. Yeah, and it uh, uh, it
Didn't move to any uh, any area else
And so xanbing tao
Was the the area of king ethnic group and they still there
but
Nowadays there there was more and more chinese
majority moved
might move there and
based on the
across border marriage and many vietnamese
females from hong yin and from hai zhong you can see
The research from uh, we think from jump alarm zhong noidat hai about
about the female who migrated to
the xanbing or dong hong area to get married with the
Inhabitant and it makes the it makes the community more complex today. It's re-vietnamese
Yes, re-vietnamese. Yeah in a way. Okay, very interesting other questions
Are questions from the internet yes, please and read them out
so question number one would be um
I thank you for a very illuminating talk. Can I ask if there are any norm enrichment initiatives from within vietnam?
Anyone and you know any norm enrichment initiatives from within
norm enrichment in
So is there any trial from vietnam?
Trying to support them using norm for example, I know
yeah
yeah, so
uh, the thank you for your question. So the question is about the norm
the norm enrichment
any
initiatives or from
within vietnam
So it's not something like uh, it's and it's a quotation from vietnam to the community but the norm in in vietnam, right?
uh, so in in vietnam for now norm is the one among, uh
uh
among several
um
several ancient
classical script of vietnam
Uh, we we are we have several types of norm
So when I use the norm norm is meaning norm via
the uh
the the specific characters of the king people
But we also have norm xa the the characters of the xao of the xao minorities or other minorities in vietnam
also when we use
is when you use a norm, uh to describe the
King when the the king group known is something like
like capitalism
uh, but and
But in vietnam for now, we have some class, uh in the
within the undergrad
program in the universities
um, and I
Was graduated from a norm major at the university of social sciences and humanities in
In in vietnam and we uh, and we have several
institution or university in vietnam to educate
people to read and to do research on norm documents
uh, and
There there was very interesting
uh activities in vietnam that uh, there there are many
private
activities private school
operated by
Home who are by my scholar or teacher who knows known very well
uh, for example, we have um
uh, we have
Some class in in the north and in the and in the south and they attracted
Many
Taichung
the the ritual master because in vietnam people
Uh still used norm and uh han and norm, uh sinu and norm as the we we call to linked here
uh, uh to
During the uh during the ritual so that's the reason why taichung they need to
To to learn uh norm and enhance. Otherwise, there are many vietnamese who really love
to learn norm
as to
um as a medium to understand
uh vietnam is
traditional culture or history
uh, but until now, uh, as I know except something like
giving
free admission to the student who
who
Who take uh, no major, uh, that's not something very specific to support uh, no
enrichment in in vietnam, uh for now and we looking so much
to it
yeah
and uh, the second, uh answer was dozijun says that the norm scripts is a part of the chinese cultural
charges
uh to what extent
To what extent does he he see himself as vietnamese
so
he
I have um
Do uh according to my research
he
He quote himself as chinese
And quote himself as a king minority of china. It's not vietnamese
so when when he preserved norm he
He he doesn't intend to preserve vietnamese
Vietnam is a culture
They preserved their own script and their own culture. It's been the minority ethnic culture
So he never mentioned he he is vietnamese
Yeah, so you can image that you you live in the border of china
Your nationality is chinese. You cannot claim us vietnamese. You only can claim my
Uh ancestor came from vietnam only yeah, right
Uh, the third one. Do you think that only king people?
Uh of higo economists that are more likely to preserve the norm script?
Uh
Okay, so
The so you mean the king people it means the king people within the king minority king community
I think this might be a type of
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so it's okay
Uh that I wonder uh, then yeah the the king people
um
Uh
In my pay in our paper that I mentioned, uh previously we point our
uh
Uh mechanism
of preserving norm
script
by dozifun and uh and his collaborators because
they want to
take
advantage of chinese government policy
to
for minority ethnic group
because to
Because in china not every ethnic group has
their own script
so that the reason why they use this as a
mechanism
As a tool to attract people to attract a chinese government
to invest to
to their economic development
yeah, uh
so this part of uh their description
About their motivation as something like cultural uh heritage preservation
It is indeed
economic
motivation
So it's not something intellectual. Uh ching people intellectuals who love to preserve
Their culture is something that they want to promote
their value to the chinese government to gain
to to gain the uh
uh
the the
positive
policy to develop their
communities
economy
and
ching people was
One among the most the richest minority ethnic
among minority ethnic group in china
Yeah, I I was so happy to be there because I was treated so well
And I I love to eat uh seafoods and there's many good seafood there
cross-border trade
Yes
Yeah, and uh sea farming sea farming because in china, uh, there's no
uh
the sea
uh my um sea
minorities ethnic group
uh besides this ethnic group and they uh, and they and they sell seafoods very well in in china
uh
The following questions I heard that norm is used in some pegodas in vietnam. Do you think it's true? Yes
uh
the uh norm character, uh
uh
is used in uh
many pegodas in vietnam
uh in spite of it
it is uh, it is uh
their own
pegodas or new
constructed pegodas
For example, very typical example, uh was uh, chu cheng guo
chu cheng guo or cheng guo in the center of uh, uh in the center of hano
uh
there are many
uh
many
norm
There's not many several, uh, norm, uh, bok doi
In the pegoda and that's the reason why many chinese visitors who went there and
uh and was very
curious about
What was the character's?
it's
me
me because from from
The visual from the visual perspective. It is chinese, but they can read it
Yeah, uh, and for now there is something like an habit of vietnam from chao of vietnam to use uh to norm
when they
When they construct a new pegoda, so we still yes, we still you know, uh in in vietnam
Uh
Yeah
The the green one right yes
And
Could you give us some scholars who are from southern vietnam?
And their success in the way to keep norm
Actually, if we mentioned to scholar they
They are the one who do research or no not keep no
yeah
so
for successful
And actually, I know many famous scholars who do a very good research on norm
I
I'm not sure about how they
Uh keep the norm
Uh, hi doctor. We and thank you for your presentation. You only mentioned king man researching and preserving norm. How about king women?
Yeah
um
Uh, so
Uh, this very interesting, uh question about gender. Yeah about gender in preserving a norm character is a very important one
uh
When uh, when we when we did interview uh to dozi film and his wife
uh, we
We use a vietnamese standard
A standard vietnamese because we cannot uh speaking in king dialect or in pakbā
I was trying to learn pakbā when I was visiting school in china in 2009
But I was uh, but I gave up uh after one week because it was difficult for it was very difficult for me
And we only speak in in standard vietnamese and we we couldn't use chinese at the same time because
The elder within the king community they they doesn't speak, uh, chinese mandarin
They speak pakbā
They pick local dialect
So when we interviewed dozi film's wife, so it means king woman
She refused to answer us and asked us to ask his her husband instead
Because they believed that intellectual, uh, is belong to man
and uh the and the woman there
uh was
Were not well, uh educated until the 1950 until the 1950
uh
Until the 1950s because at that time the chinese government try to improve the uh, formal education
In the in the border of china in general not only in this area
so from that the moment aunt
women, uh
attracted to uh
formal education than before but you know because this is a
ethnic manogrid
minorities, uh group of china and the woman, uh
mostly doing something like uh, uh house house works or farming or trading, uh, they
Do they they they don't interest? Uh, it's uh, they they are not interested much in education
Uh, and they believe that is all
uh the priority of the man
uh, but the king woman was uh
Were part of the preservation process because uh, I
Would love to mention to the adult noodle the uh, the communal whole singers ritual singers
um
to uh
mr tozi full
uh, try to uh, uh try to uh, uh
Re-organize the happening activities and uh, he
Opened some class like the uh, uh, uh
to know
To educate the now known how to sing in vietnamese
and he used known to
written down the uh, the the uh, the pronunciation, uh, uh
of the of the song
but I we
We we investigate
a fact that the down
uh did didn't
really
Can read the character they learn by heart
They learn by heart they learn of all the the the the song lyrics
And they sing they sing by heart. They learn by heart not
not
recognizing any characters
uh, and
they even
pronounce in the wrong way because they they was
Separated from viet from vietnam for a very long time and they usually use king dialect and bakwan
so if you
Uh, I I don't have opportunity to show you
a shortcut of their singing
But at the beginning I was not truly fully understand what they were singing
Uh, and that's the reason why those people invited
Uh some singers from chaco communal communal house because uh at the past time
at the
At the previous time chaco and uh nongong was uh was uh was uh
was uh
was
something like uh was
Very in a very good connection
And uh, they exchanged with each other during the holy
Yeah, but chaco
uh, it belonged to vietnam and it was developed along with the vietnam history and the uh,
and the
being in dongong
They they was in a different way. So that's the reason why they cannot preserve the the the haircut thing of
Hapnya chow they invite they invite
the singers from chaco
Uh to change their singers. So that's one
Uh rose of women to preserve a norm, but actually it's not preserved. Uh,
norm preservation
the other one was the
the the uh
The the woman who gets married or with uh the inhabitants, but actually they can speak
vietnam as well standard vietnam as well with haizong and hongyun dialect
Uh, but they actually even uh cannot recognize a norm character. Yeah, this is the very sad, uh fact
Um
Non-vietnam are uh, are they significantly different? Yes
Uh, because the norm is the is the character that used to record the sound
So the uh xao language and the gim language is quite different
So that's the reason why even though they are a square or block characters, but they records the different
phonetic system, so it's quite
Different and I cannot read norm xao because I I don't know xao language. Yeah
Uh, some people say that norm script is preserved chinese script
Of the time dynasty. Is that correct? No, uh, that this is the case of han viet
Uh, it's not the case of norm. Yeah
Uh, you mentioned that the king speak cantonese
Mentoring and vietnamese some no no do they use chinese, you know or seem like chinese characters
Uh, that that is very interesting
Questions because what we call traditional or simplified chinese is very model it's model norm
because in the past
Uh, if you if you have a chance to look at vietnamese, uh manuscript or cino norm documents
You can you can uh, you can observe that they use both what we call chinese law and and seem and uh symbolized
chinese characters because you know in
in china before the
uh
There is no there's nothing related to traditional or
symbolized because
It was a history of chinese characters, uh development and
in
eastern
dynasty
The character
Was written in uh in a form and to another dynasty it was written in a different form and what we call
traditional or
symbolized
so that reason why
uh
What we can see in the uh norm documents or manuscript
preserved
within the norm the ching the king communities
They mixed they use a mixture of what we call traditional and uh, uh, and uh,
symbolized
symbolized yeah
simplify I usually
In vietnam if you belong to ethnic minority groups
You get boys during national university and train exam. How about king people in china? Yes, they have the same
They got the same policy
in china now
yeah
Are the textualized works of tozi from public and available somewhere in vietnam?
Uh, actually the textualized
Works of tozi from published and available in china and it's very
Uh easy to fight in china that and he published many
um
alone or together with collaborators or together with chinese scholars, but uh
I haven't seen any pieces of it in vietnam
Uh, we did some copy
Uh to do our research if we can consider
Uh, that is the existence of those people's work in vietnam. Yes, it is
Uh, actually the tibetans and
Are not encouraged to speak their own languages
How about king people when they be discriminated if they speak vietnamist?
uh, I haven't seen any uh
uh any policy from chinese government, uh to
um
To prevent uh, people to speak vietnamist
but this uh
But but the vietnam is it uh, gradually
uh
Disappear among the community because of the development
because of the power of uh, mandarin chinese
in the in the society because you know if the previous if in the previous phases or
uh historical periods
uh
people
didn't
Have them be engaged in a equation system and they don't care much about to get a job
within the
Government system they
They don't have to learn uh, chinese mattering chinese, but for now the younger generation they have
Uh, they have a plan to join into the han
society and get
And getting a job and get married with a han
Ethnic so that the re that's the reason why
uh, they
The the process is very natural. Yes
Do you think king men can be part of chinese army? Yes
Uh, dozifu was uh part of chinese army
Yes
Is there any king community in taiwan we have a taiwan scholar here
Um, I
I know about king people in taiwan and I don't know about how it become a community
because community have many thing, uh
uh, despite
the size of uh
Of nationality because you know how they have to have a
Shared cultural activities education
Etc. And I hope that for the younger generation in in the second generation
Vietnamese people in in taiwan
We we can have something like king community in taiwan just like in uh, uh and in uh
set
In set. Yeah, because in in chat, uh via
Via a weird community becomes a ethnic minorities of uh, sec. Yeah
Do king family families in guang see have many children I heard that one chai policy are not applied to ethnic minority groups
Yes
um
I haven't count how many children of each family
Uh, but uh the one chai policy are not applied to ethnic minority groups
Yeah, it apply to every ethnic minority group in in china not only to king minority
Yeah, very good. Thank you. The anonymous viewer has asked so many interesting questions
Yes, yes, please
Uh, thank you so much. I'm so so interested in
video from the prison and
I'm not really good at reading mistakes and I don't know much unknown
But yeah, uh, thanks to professor and I joined his class in han long
so
I
I have quite a lot
Patience. Yeah, I think we don't have enough time. So I
Yeah, we know as many as I know
My first question is is to uh, let's to them way
dimension that uh,
King people living in das korean
they
um
to English speakers
They speak many languages as they come
and i'm wondering myself that uh, how are they
The big language because I I thought uh, I have thought that
When they speak many languages, uh at the same time so each one each of their language get, you know
influenced by others
so how about the vietnamese get influenced by
pathway or mandarin
so
How about the chance in the vietnamese?
Probably
Are there any similar
30 to the vietnamese than the vietnamese now within vietnam because
uh, I I know that so many words in vietnamese now have
similarities with china chinese. I mean a mushroom mandarin of
Cantonese
That i've I guess is a similar
So i'm not sure I explain so clearly to you
I see that probably their language the vietnamese get influenced much from them
They or they they they mandarin or not. I'm not sure. So i've seen you
and my second question is
Uh, do they use kind of
Do they use words that you know at the same
by same styles and
I don't know how to explain it
Uh
I mean in speaking
Yeah, probably this this thing with so clearly two languages or they use a some carry
Like hand yet as a vietnamese people everything in vietnamese between now
That's my two questions. Yeah
uh
I'm trying to
To answer your your questions. Yeah, it's very, uh difficult, uh topic
uh, so
So please, uh mention to uh, monty
Monty
When when we uh, when we use uh, when we use many, uh different languages at the same time
Uh, there they always one among them has the most power
right
And what I would love to describe during my research is that the most powered language
to king
community was changed by time
because uh before it was a bagua but gradually it was uh
the chinese mandarin
and vietnamese and standard vietnamese
So we have do we have to consider which period it was
and yes
The others languages will affect to the main to the main or the most power language
But it's very complicated
And detail and in the detail, so I I I don't think that I can
explain very
very
Very clearly here
And the and the second question is what about han viet about han viet so, you know in in
In vietnamese language in standard vietnamese
In standard vietnamese, we can see the han viet the han viet would
usually use my
intellectuals
or in writing
when I uh, when I
write my
research article or a monograph
my advisor always
Uh, always ask me to less
using han viet
to let people
understand my idea clearly because for now many han viet
goods
have
Become very difficult for people to understand because the language is
developed in other way
Yeah, even though they can use the dictionary
But I don't I don't think that people
Would love to use dictionary to read my uh, my writing
Yeah, so that the same thing
Actually, the same thing happened in uh, in ching in the community because you know the
especially women
Uh, I don't have gender bias this fact
I'm I'm a woman so i'm not I don't have anything like gender bias, but
It was a fact that the women were not well educated
and so the so that is the reason why they use very normal and very popular expression of
to
In daily life and that's the reason why they don't use much han viet because they don't know
About that kind of han viet and even though to the intellectuals and we have to face the fact
That to the ethnic minorities there was very few intellectuals or real
Intellectors, they are not well educated or
many of them
could reach to a high
Education, I would love to raise an example the most brilliant
uh
young
Interleters within the community community is a bokai sukai
He got a
Degree from a university and that was the highest degree during the community
uh, they they usually
graduate from the
government
And then they drop and they drop all of education
Things to go to the border
To join to the trade between the two countries and it and they can gain much money
From it, so they don't care much about
Education so that's the reason why uh, we rarely
see the use of a han viet during their
uh
speaking
Yeah, so-so speaking
Okay
Uh, thank you so much for your presentation very
Interesting because it's quite in line with my
resource as well
It's about uh, i'm working on the
language policy and language recognition
Uh in one of indigent language in australia
Uh, uh, so it's very general question. I have
some questions process about uh
language policy so
uh
in general, is there any
What is uh language policy for language preservation efforts in
Uh communities it came from
inside
Kim communities of australia from outside. I mean from this, uh support from
china china government
or is
uh independently
They run for language preservation efforts in
Do-do-sing
Yes
And the second one is are the noticeable
regional differences, uh
in language preservation efforts
Among communities across maybe in different part in for example in
rural settings or in urban setting is is is they have some way or set effort to preserve
the language with this kind of
your effort you explained before with
uh
Some effort. Yeah, right
Or it's the same whole the cities or whole the
southern china is they have the same
effort to preserve the kint language
Yes
Thank you very interesting question
Talking about language
policy
So you you can
You can notify that the date of a known preservation from mr
Do-do-sing from is from to southern
uh, so
because
as our
observation
Uh, the known preservation started under
uh, some
China some
policy from the government is not only the language policy is the policy for the minority ethnic group in china
And they can they uh, they would like to they would like to promote
ethnic minority groups
writing system
and
especially this case
It's it's normal. No, it's what it no norm is the uh, it's the
priority of vietnam
so chinese government consider the norm as the
at not at uh
minority ethnic groups are characters and would love to
Invest much on the preservation of it
I think the policy has political
Sense
in it
Yeah
To the urban and uh
So you mentioned about the southern the southern china
uh, I
Actually, I don't know much about other uh area because I focus much on uh, comparative study between the
Qing community in dongxing and the inner vietnam
Uh, yeah, so I cannot
Tell you much about it, but I think i'm the the chinese government's policy
Uh, uh each minority ethnic group of china
Would not to promote their own characters and languages
Yeah, it's my my my my my feeling is not my research. So i'm sorry if I
um
I say something that does
That does not right
Yeah
So we have a bunch of very much questions then we have the last question today goes to
Our anonymous reader. Yes
Ask, uh, I have to uh, yeah you
Families encourage their daughters to marry chinese men. Oh, it's very interesting question. Um
I
I don't I don't have any evidence about
the tendencies of uh
pushing daughter to marry uh chinese men because you know in china now we
the the women number is uh
It's much less than the the men so that in in china women have a very uh high value for now
uh, but we we are
but we saw
many uh marriage between the
uh, king
people and the han and it's much more than before because uh before uh, even though during
1950
1950s
uh
the some uh some uh some elder uh said that oh
We don't we we didn't think about to get married with han
Uh, because the language and the culture is quite different
But for now, they have the same education and they have the uh, they and the
Liston uh between the is it this area and other parts of china is is uh
uh
Is the closer?
Uh, so they don't consider han minority is something out of the community
so the the the the number of marriage between uh han
and uh king people
Are raising
We have still a lot of questions here
And I don't know we have already exceeded our time
They can write me. Yes
I guess because there were questions about the ethnographic methods and I could imagine that we can talk for hours about this topic
I see it is a very interesting topic and many people
Uh joined us here via the internet
And I think dr
I'm going to learn is ready
to answer
Your questions by mail if you write it and maybe you should give your address your mail as us
Here or where we can yeah through the zoom. Yes
You can write
We can write it in the chat. Yeah. Yes
Right
Okay
This is my email address it's called l a n
Yeah, l a n is my normal. It's my name and han norm is my major. So lan han norm
Gmail yeah, thank you
Thank you very much for
You're coming for your interesting questions
um
the speaker will write the
email address
If you all have it
And I would say not last next year you're planning to come back to germany and maybe
We could invite you again
And then we will talk about the ethnographic methods and many other interesting topics
Uh, that was it for now. Thank you for your attention
And we are seeing each other in this format again in september
when
Professor munam from saigon
Will talk about uh joon wing ki
So we're looking forward about this
topic
In our september issue and we will through the
vietnam
Network of all the grower where she started doing so diligently
Send you an invitation
Right in time. Thank you very much for now and
Thank you for your interesting presentation. Thank you for the involved