So, welcome everybody.
This is the first lecture in my course on Purification Ethics and Karma in Early Buddhist
Discourse.
I have a little cold, but I hope that my voice is still able to reach you.
I'll start by briefly introducing the actual collection to you, and after that we will
turn to the first discourse in the Madhyama Agama.
So the source text that we will be working with, and this is what I've put here on the
blackboard for you, is the Madhyama Agama that has been preserved in Chinese translation.
This is entry number 26 in the Taishu edition.
And this discourse collection is a counterpart to the Madhyamani Kaya preserved in the Pali
canon.
Now one thing I think that is very important for us to keep in mind is that the original
used for this Madhyama Agama translation has the same claim, has the same strength of claiming
to be an authentic record of the teachings of the Buddha as the Madhyamani Kaya preserved
in Pali.
And it is this which makes comparative studies of the discourses such an interesting affair.
As from the outset, we never really know which of the parallel versions has preserved the
more probable and therewith the more original account of the teachings.
Now I hope you can see this as I move down.
I have to always read out everything I put on the blackboard for you because besides
being taped as a video, the lecture is also being taped as a pure audio recording for
some people, especially in Asia, whose internet connection is not good enough so they can
only hear what I'm saying, so whatever I put there on the blackboard, I have to read it
out also so that they get to know what I'm talking about.
So this Madhyama, excuse me, this Madhyama Agama translation was done by a Kashmirian
monk by the name of Gautama Sangadeva and that was between 397 and 398 of the present
era.
He had a probably written original and manuscript and that was read out to him by another Kashmiri
monk.
As far as we are able to reconstruct, this original was a discourse collection transmitted
by the so-called Sarvastivada tradition.
This is another of the early Buddhist schools similar to what we now refer to as the Theravada
tradition, a school that was particularly present in the north-west of India.
So as far as we can tell from the way how proper names have been translated and also
from some of the translation errors, the original was probably in a prakrit, prakrit is an umbrella
term for those ancient Indian languages, one of which is also Pali.
The translation of the Madhyama Agama as far as I am able to tell by having worked
with it for quite some time is a very good translation.
In fact among the Agamas I think personally I find this is probably the best translation.
It was carried out by an Indian who knew about the text and about the type of text he was
translating but he had learned Chinese and he had a group of 40 scholar monks, Chinese
scholar monks that were present during the time of translation, asking questions, checking,
etc.
The Madhyama Agama translation that we have is not the first ever translation into Chinese.
There was an earlier translation by Jufu Nian and Dharma Nandin but this translation is
no longer extant so it seems that this translation was replaced by the translation done by Sanghadeva.
Now this Madhyama Agama collection translated by Sanghadeva has 222 discourses in 18 chapters.
The Madhyama Nikaya that we know has 152 discourses in 15 chapters and the number of discourses
that these two collections share in common are about 100.
If we put them side by side we find that mostly a chapter has 10 discourses but this is not
always the case.
In the Madhyama Nikaya we have one that has more and in the Madhyama Agama we have several
chapters that contain considerably more than 10 discourses.
And if you look at these chapters we find that they only have four chapter headings
in common and I have made a little diagram here for you.
So it's the chapters on kings, chapters on brahmins, on pairs and on analysis.
And as you can already see from the grouping of parallels the chapter of kings shares only
two discourses.
The brahmins and pairs only four and it's only the chapter on analysis where considerable
number of discourses are found in both versions but if you look at it more closely you will
see that even there the sequence is different.
As you see in Madhyama Nikaya I listed according to the Pali version we have 132, 3,4,5,6,7
but then on the other side the Madhyama Agama parallels come in quite a different sequence.
So what does it tell us?
I think it tells us that these two collections draw on the same material but have arranged
it quite differently.
And it is this impression which we also get when we come to the first chapter which is
what we will be studying very soon.
I have now put the Madhyama Agama discourses on one side and you see on the other side
the Anguttara Nikaya parallels.
Madhyama Agama 7 has no Pali parallel but 1 to 8 all have parallels among the 7s of
the Anguttara.
And the final two that have parallels in the Madhyama Nikaya are both discourses also concerned
with 7 stages of purification and 7 ways of dealing with the influxes.
So basically when we look at this the feeling we get is that this was originally a chapter
of 7s and may have been even part of some Anguttara or a Kotharika collection and was
later added to the Madhyama Agama.
We have a somewhat similar case in the Madhyama Nikaya where in that case it is the last chapter
the Sala Yatanavagan which has a number of very short discourses all on the 6 senses
and all of the parallels to this Madhyama Nikaya chapter are found in the Samyukta
Agama.
So while it is possible that in the case of the Madhyama Nikaya a whole group of discourses
from a collected Samyukta collection was added at the end.
In the Madhyama Agama we are studying now it looks as if a whole group of discourses
from an Anguttarika, Anguttara, a Kotharika collection was added at the beginning.
Now I think it is important for us to know that this movement of discourses does not
mean that these discourses are somewhat late.
It only means that within the oral transmission the discourses the way they were arranged
in collections in groups was not fixed from the outset but was handled flexibly by the
different reciters.
And so as these recited traditions separate from each other each develop in its own way
and this is how we get these final results.
I think at this point I want to stop and ask for questions or comments.
My problem sitting here in front of the computer is that I can't see you.
I don't know if I am reaching you, if it's understandable or not and anyway this little
introduction is a little dry after that we will get into the first discourse.
But at this point if you have any comments, if anything I said I didn't understand, if
there are any questions then please use the chat function and write in it.
So the first comment, I have to read them out for those who only listen.
No question but sounds not too good.
Yeah, sounds not too good.
I think in a way it sounds not too good as we cannot be totally sure but on the other
side it is sounds good in a way because we know this is a genuine oral transmission with
all its strength and all its vicissitudes.
This is my personal feeling from comparative studies.
If only 100 parallel suttas what about the rest?
Yeah, so there are a few of the 152 discourses in the Majimani Kaya that have no parallels.
There are several where we have parallels only in Sanskrit fragments or in other Chinese
Agamas or in Tibetan translation.
This is a very good question and the point is that, the problem is that whereas in the
case of the Pali discourses we have all collections of born traditions, we have the complete Theravada
discourse set.
In the case of those discourse collections of the other school we do not have the complete
set.
The Chinese Agamas that we have are not from the same school.
We have a Durga Agama collection of long discourses that is from the Dharma Gupta school.
We have this Madhyama Agama middle long discourses which is probably Sarvastivada.
We have Samyukta Agama connected discourses.
A full translation is from the Moolasa wastivada.
We have another partial one where the school affiliation is under discussion.
And the counterpart to the Anguttara Nikaya, the Ekotarika Agama that we have in Chinese
translation is doubtful school.
We are still discussing that.
Probably not Sarvastivada, probably not Moolasa wastivada.
Many scholars say Ma Sanghika but this is being discussed.
What is important for us to know is that these four collections we have are all from different
schools.
So for example, Jivakasuta.
The Jivakasuta in the Majimani Kaya, that is Majimani Kaya put up 55 I think if I'm
not mistaken.
Yeah I think it's 55.
Anyway this Jivakasuta is not in the Chinese Majyama Agama of the Sarvastivada school.
In fact we have no Chinese version of the Jivakasuta.
But now recently found Sanskrit fragments of the Sarvastivada, Moolasa wastivada tradition
from Central Asia.
We have a Sanskrit version and that is found in the Dirga Agama of the Sarvastivada tradition.
So it means our Jivakasuta which in the Theravada tradition went into the middle long group.
In the Sarvastivada tradition it went into the long group, the group of long discourses.
And because that has not been translated into Chinese, we don't have a Chinese version.
And the Dhammaguptaka school whose long discourse collection we have, they did not allot their
Jivakasuta to that collection.
They might have also put it into their middle collection like the Theravada school.
So our Jivakasuta as far as Chinese translators are concerned, it kind of fell between the
chairs and if we didn't find that Sanskrit fragments very recently discovered, we would
think there is no parallel to this sutta.
This is important for us in so far as when a discourse has no parallel at all, this does
not necessarily mean that this discourse is spurious or late or something.
It just means that through the vicissitudes of transmission and translation a version
of this discourse has not reached us.
I hope this was not too long a reply to a good question.
Are there any other questions about this first part?
Thank you.
Another question, those suttas without Pali parallel, are they available in translation?
Well the whole of the Madhyama Agama so far is not available in translation but I am one
of the editors and one of the translators involved in translating this collection.
There is a Japanese foundation, the Numata foundation who is sponsoring the translation
of Chinese canonical text into English and they have given the task of translating the
entire Madhyama Agama to a friend and colleague of mine, Marcus Bingenheimer, he is in Taiwan
at the Dhamma Dham Buddhist College and he, Professor Rod Bucknell from Australia and
myself are the editors of this translation project and Marcus and myself are also translating
parts ourselves and we have finished the first volume, this should hopefully be coming out
this year or the next year and the other two volumes, because Marcus is very busy he
has stepped down so I will be the chief editor for the remainder and the other two volumes
to complete the whole translation I think will take us each another two years.
So by the time of publication of this translation you will also get those suttas without a Pali
parallel but for the time being the only way to get to know about them is to join my course,
I'll be telling you about them. Good then I think after this first a little bit dry introduction
into the Madhyama Agama as a discourse selection as a whole we will now take a look at the first
discourse and this is already quite a challenging one because we have it's a complex discourse and
we have a number of differences there. So the discourse is on seven dharmas excuse me the
chapter on seven dharmas this is the first discourse excuse me discourse on wholesome
qualities and it's the Pali to the Dhammanu Sutta in the Anguttara Nikaya among the sevens
the 64th discourse which you can find in the PTS edition volume 4 page 113. So the discourse
starts with the traditional opening of a discourse which in the Anguttara Nikaya we do not have,
thus have I heard at one time and the Buddha was staying at Savati in Jita's Grove, Anata Pinika's
Park. This is probably the most frequently mentioned place where the Buddha stayed the
famous park given by the Lady Sable, Anata Pinika. According to a tradition the story grows that this
grove was in the position of a prince who was not willing to part with it and so Anata Pinika had
the whole ground of this grove covered with golden coins so that he could buy the land and construct
a place for the Buddha to stay in Savati. So here comes the first power of the discourse itself
at that time the blessed one addressed the monks. If a monk achieves seven qualities then he will
attain joy and happiness in the path of the noble ones and will progress rightly towards the
cessation of the taints. So over here we find a little difference the Pali version does not speak
of the cessation of the taints these are also sometimes called the influxes the asavas
but instead says that if a monk has these seven qualities he becomes worthy of offering
and he becomes an unexcelled field of merit for the world.
This sets a slightly different theme
as in the Pali version the issue is about being a source of merit. In the Madhyama Agama version
we get more this feeling of getting joy and happiness by practicing the past and progressing
towards liberation. Now the Madhyama Agama version lists those seven qualities and I have now
excuse me please I have now departed a little bit from the discourse because I'm adding numbers
here these are obviously not found in the discourse itself but I'm trying to make things a little bit
more easy for us to see. So these seven qualities are that a monk and here I first should perhaps
say that the expression monk or bhikkhu in the early discourses is not meant to restrict the
instructions to monastics or to males but much rather it mentions those who in the hierarchical
situation are on top which are the monks as representative for whoever is engaging in the
practice. So these seven qualities are that a monk or a nun or a lay disciple or a lady lay
disciple should know the Dharma, the meaning, the proper time, restraint, himself, assemblies
and you know or she should know persons according to their superiority.
Now when we put this first listing side by side with the Pali version as you can see here below
we already see there's some differences and these differences are typical for orally transmitted
literature. I have found a very frequent instance of that that we get pretty much the same exposition
but somehow the sequence varies. As you see here I have put in brackets the corresponding numbers
of the Madhyama Agama version. You see numbers one, two and numbers six and seven are in this same
place but numbers five and three have exchanged place and number four is actually a little
different. It's actually quite different. So we have one quality which is totally different actually
and we have two qualities which are the same but they come in the opposite place.
In my own comparative studies I have found this very significant that there are so many sequential
variations but usually I mean in this case we have one real difference but sometimes you have
no difference as far as the content is concerned and often enough I also found that there is no
there's no real advantage of one sequence over the other. There's no I mean if I have to think of
why should somebody want to change this? What benefit do they get? It's a little difficult to
find such benefits and my own conclusion from studying these instances is very much that these
are just natural errors that happen during oral transmission. Like somebody tells us five things
and we still remember those fives but hang on did you say that second or third place? I'm not really
sure. So things can can get mixed up in the sequence but we still preserve the same material.
So now we come to the first quality.
Excuse me for all this coughing I hope next week I'll be better. How does a monk know the
Dharma? A monk knows and now we get a listing of angas in Pali of limbs of types of texts.
So the Madhyama Agama version and I have put in brackets the Pali words for those of you who are
familiar with these. It lists discourses, stanzas, expositions, verses, causes,
inspired utterances, heroic tales, what has been thus said, birth stories, answers to questions,
marvels and explanations of meaning. These are 12 altogether and this is a standard presentation
that we find in the so-called northern Buddhist schools that they list 12 whereas our Anguttara
version has only nine of these. I'm not going to read them again. According to our knowledge the
nine-fold listing is quite probably the original one and this was later expanded into this
12-fold listing we get in the Madhyama Agama.
Now these angas have been a topic of considerable scholarly discussion
and at the present point I am not going to get into that.
Again my problem as I said earlier I can't see you. I don't know how much I am able to read you
and I don't want to overburden this first lecture with too much of theoretical and
intricate and complex issues. At the end of the discourse I want also to have a discussion on
what the discourse practically means for us so that the whole thing stays a little alive.
But now especially for those who later listen to this lecture I would very much appreciate
if on the blog that we have on our website you express your opinion if you wish me at a
future time next or third lecture to go more into these angas. There are in particular a theory
based on only three angas and only four angas one by Master Yin Shun from Taiwan and the other by
Professor Van Heenhuber and in each of these two cases I could say something more on these theories
on my personal hold on these theories but for the time being I think I just briefly touch on what
these are according to the commentary and then just continue with our Madhyama Agama number one
so that we do not get tracked down too much into this more theoretical topics.
So first discourses here I'm following the Anguttara Nikaya listing it's just discourses
spoken by the Buddha in general. Then stanzas, Gaya, suppose according to tradition refers to
when there is a discourse that has also some verses combined with verses. Then expositions
would be discourses without any verses. Then pure verses, Gada, would be just verses themselves.
Inspired utterances is when we have a collection under that name in the Pali Canon when some
particular occurrence inspires a saying which could be in verse but needs not be in verse.
We again have a collection of that type in the Pali Canon.
It's basically they have a specific introduction. Thus is what it was said kind of quotations in a
way. Birth stories, Jadaka, these are stories of the Buddha in a past life, his experiences
during past lives. Canonical jatakas we have in the discourses where the Buddha is in his past
life as a human. Then we have a jataka collection in the Pali Canon. The canonical part are the
verses. A commentarial part are the stories and in these stories the Buddha also is identified
with animals, different animals in past lives. Then we have marvels, abhuta, dhamma,
marvelous occurrences, marvelous qualities of the Buddha and some of his chief
disciples and vedala answers to questions or discussions. To these the 12-fold listing
adds the nidana
causes. That is basically the introduction to a discourse that gives some information on the
setting and apadana, heroic tales. These are tales usually involving the narratives of former lives
of disciples to show the working mechanics of karma and then the last in the listing
explanations of meaning, upadesha. This is kind of philosophical expositions.
Whatever meaning these different terms have they seem to stand for different types of texts
or different collections. Academics discuss on it. I personally think it's just types of text
and they are just meant to say teaching of the dharma in different ways.
So the Madhyama Agama discourse tells us that if a monk does not know the dharma,
that is to say does not know the discourses, stanzas, expositions, verses, causes, inspired,
utterances, heroic tales, what has been thus said, birth stories, answers to questions, marvels and
explanations of meaning, then such a monk is one who does not know the dharma. But in the truly
repetitive style of the discourses we are now told that if a monk knows the dharma well, that
is to say he knows the discourses and I spare you the rest, etc., until explanations of meaning,
then such a monk is one who knows the dharma well.
So basically knowing the dharma here is defined as acquaintances with the texts.
Now we come to the second quality.
How does a monk know the meaning? A monk knows the meaning of various explanations. The meaning
is this, the meaning is that. I think there's not much for me to say to them that is quite
straightforward. It just means that one really understands what somebody else is telling us.
The third quality, the Chinese version, the Madhyama-Agama version,
how does a monk know the proper time? A monk knows this is the time to develop the characteristic
of settling. This is the time to develop the characteristic of arousing and this is the time
to develop the characteristic of equanimity. It's interesting because in the Anguttara
parallel version we get four different qualities. There the knowing of the proper time is
to know the time when it's time to recite, to ask questions, to make an effort and to go into
seclusion. Now the three aspects that the Madhyama-Agama version presents us, the settling,
arousing and equanimity, we have a similar listing also in Pali discourses.
There is a discourse in the Anguttara Nikayan called the Nimitta Sutta. This is page 256 of
the first volume of the PDS edition and there we are told that somebody who many tales should from
time to time give attention to the Samadhi Nimitta, the characteristic of settling in the
Madhyama-Agama version, to the Pag-Gahanimitta, the characteristic of arousing in the Madhyama-Agama
version and to the Upek-Gahanimitta, the characteristic of equanimity. So the listing we get
in the Madhyama-Agama as such is also found elsewhere in the Pali canon but not in the actual
parallel to this discourse. And if we put these two versions now side by side, the Madhyama-Agama
three qualities and the Anguttara the four qualities, we see that the Madhyama-Agama
wants us to know the proper time especially in regard to meditation. These ideas of settling,
arousing equanimity are especially related to the meditation practice. They basically mean when
I have to know when to aim for more calmness, I have to know when to give it a little push,
when to put in a little bit more energy and I also have to know when I should not interfere
with the way the mind is developing in the practice right now. I just should watch it with equanimity.
Our Anguttara Nikaya version has a more broader perspective.
It has the practice of meditation as its last under seclusion. One usually goes into seclusion
to meditate but it has a more general context of development and growth in the Dharma that is the
recitation which means what one has heard to repeat that for oneself, the only way they had
in an oral culture to keep the text alive. There was no book where one could quickly look up, no
internet, nothing. Questioning, this is the second step that based on having learned a text,
we need to understand it by asking questions. Asking questions to ourselves and eventually
also to others if we don't understand or to clarify and then that is not enough. Then one
has to also make an effort to put those teachings into practice and the way to really do that is
meditation withdraw into seclusion. Not the only way but for early Buddhism a central aspect of
development. If I look at these two, sorry, from a comparative perspective I'm simply not able to
tell you which one is the original. I think both make sense. Both are things that one should know
the proper time for. So we just, as it's sometimes said, we just have to let both versions stand
side by side.
Quality number four, I read again, how does a monk know restraint?
A monk knows restraint when having discarded slot and torpor, he practices clear comprehension while
drinking, eating, going, standing, sitting, lying down, speaking, keeping silent, defecating or
urinating. This is completely different in the Pali version.
Instead our Anguttara Nikaya version speaks of moderation.
Moderation with the four requisites of robes,
arms, food, dwelling and medicine that as a monastic we should not overtax those who
offer these to us and know when it is enough.
Again we could probably make an argument for both versions.
I personally have a predilection for the Anguttara version. It seems to me more important as a
wholesome quality to take care of the fact that we don't overdo it when others help us and support
us. It's a very important quality specifically for a monastic. Whereas the practice of clear
comprehension is more carrying, continuing with mindfulness and clear comprehension doing various
activities. This is more something pertains particularly to the meditation area and
I do not fully see it fits its context so well, but you are free to disagree. After we have gone
through the discourse we will have our discussion and please challenge me on that if you if you feel
that the Madhyama Agama version makes more sense. Quality number five. I read again from the Madhyama
Agama. How does a monk know himself? A monk knows of himself I have such faith, such virtue, such
learning, such generosity, such wisdom, such eloquence, such knowledge of the canonical
text and such attainments. When we look at the parallel we find that faith,
virtue, learning, generosity, wisdom and eloquence are also mentioned,
but knowledge of canonical text and attainments is something only found in the Madhyama Agama.
What I find interesting about this, independent whether we include now the knowledge of the text
and of fonts attainments, is that as one of the recommendable wholesome qualities we are told to
know our own good qualities. We should not only look at our mistakes, we should also look at our
strength and we should know hey I'm good at that, I have this. I find this is very from a practical
perspective I find this is a very important point that these two discourses are making here.
Quality number six. How does a monk know assemblies? A monk knows this is an assembly
of warriors, this is an assembly of brahmin, this is an assembly of householders, this is an assembly
of recluses and that type of assembly I ought to walk like this, stand like this, sit like this,
speak like this, keep silent like this. This is a monk who knows assemblies.
There are no real major differences worthy of our note in the Pali parallel.
The point that this sixth quality is making is that we have to have the wisdom
to adjust our behavior to outward circumstances.
So now we come to the last.
How does a monk know persons according to their superiority?
A monk knows that there are two types of persons, those who have faith and those who do not have
faith. Those who have faith are superior, those who do not have faith are inferior.
Now the discourse continues with this always contrasting two types
and moves to the following topics of those who have faith, there are those who frequently go
to see monks and who don't, obviously those who go to see the monks are superior. Again superior
of those who go to see are those who then pay their respects to the monks
and of those who pay their respects the better ones are those who ask about the discourses
and of those who ask the better ones are those who listen with concentration to the discourse
and of those who listen the better ones are those who retain the dharma that they have heard,
who memorize it, who keep it in mind. Again something that reminds us of the oral setting
with which we are dealing and of the importance of remembering, recollecting as one has no
no other way of retrieving that information later on. Then of those who retain the dharma they have
heard the superior ones are those who also examine the meaning, not merely passive reception of the
teachings but reflect, examine, try to understand and of those who examine the meaning of the dharma
they have heard, still the superior ones of these are those who know the dharma, know its meaning,
progress in the dharma, follow the dharma, conform to the dharma and practice in accordance with the
dharma. Simply said those who put things into practice and of those who put things into practice
the superior ones are those who benefit themselves and benefit others, who benefit many people,
who have a compassion for the world, seek advantage and benefit for gods and human beings,
seek their peace and happiness and the Madhyama Agama version contrasts these to those who
neither benefit themselves nor others. The corresponding Anguttara Nikaya listing
does not mention faith that we had in first place but then proceeds through a similar series
that one wants to see the noble ones and of those who want to see noble ones the superior ones are
those who want to hear the true dharma. There's a question by somebody so if you can type it into
the chat box because we had some problem with the microphone I am for the time being only working
with the chat box and then later on we'll see if we can also use the micro function.
So returning to the Anguttara listing, once to hear the true dharma the superior ones are those
who listen with an attentive ear those who have listened the superior ones are those who remember
it and then the superior ones are those who examine it again those who practice and of those
who practice it the superior ones are those who practice for their own benefit and that of others
and this is contrasted to only benefiting oneself. So here we have a slight difference
both versions agree that the superior ones are those who benefit themselves and others but the
Chinese version contrasts this to somebody who does not benefit others or himself or herself
in the Pali version we have benefiting both contrasted to benefiting oneself.
Another difference is that the Mayama Agama version gives us a simile to express to illustrate
this sequence of superiorities. I read it is just as from a cow comes milk from milk comes cream
from cream comes butter from butter comes ghee and from ghee comes cream of ghee and among these
cream of ghee is supreme the greatest the highest the best the superior one the most excellent one
the most sublime in the same way if a person's benefit themselves and benefit others he is the
supreme the greatest the highest the best the superior one the most excellent the most sublime
and we get a standard conclusion to a discourse this is what the buddha said
having heard the buddha's words the monks were delighted and remembered them well
the Pali version does not have such a formal conclusion
so we get seven qualities
quality number one is to have a good knowledge of the buddha's teachings
quality number two is to understand the meaning of what others say quality number three is to know
the proper time for or during meditation we had that little difference quality number four in the
chinese version be restrained in behavior in the anguta apparel be moderate with requisites
quality number five no one's own strength and weaknesses
quality number six able to adopt one's behavior to the assemblies and quality number seven is to know
how to how to step on how to move forward to what is superior to go one step further
and as a result of these seven qualities one gains joy and progresses to awakening according
to the chinese version or one becomes worthy of support and a source of merit in the Pali version
so at this point i want to stop and i would like us now to have a little discussion
question first of all are there any questions or any comments on these seven qualities
or the differences between the parallel versions the ball is with you
so
when you have finished writing the chat you have to hit the enter so otherwise i won't see what
you've written i saw that some people are typing but so far nothing has appeared in the chat
all right so there's one comment here saying it seems to me that quality three is slightly
different as all the others have to do with interaction with others in some way whereas number
three is devoted only to the personal activity of meditation let me see
yeah it's a very interesting perspective to look at it from the from the viewpoint of whether they
have something to do with interacting with others or not particular number six is very strong on
that number five is also very much about about myself no knowing knowing my own strength and
weaknesses yeah it's a good perspective to to look at them from from from this viewpoint
it's interesting and so far as i'm i have just recently published another article one of my many
articles on the mahagupala kasurta there is another discourse in the magimani kaya which has a whole
listing of qualities and there i also find this interrelation between concern for others and
concern for oneself and my basic impression is that obviously early buddhism is not hinayana
this is the whole idea about hinayana and about selfishness is part of later developments
and has very little to do with early buddhism but early buddhism puts the need to develop oneself
very clearly in first position and it is only when we have really developed ourself that we can help
others there is this beautiful simile in the salika sutta that just as one who is sinking himself
or herself in the mud cannot pull out another so unless we establish ourselves on firm ground within
we are not able to to help others but then we also find in the early buddhist discourse
considerable room given for such concern for others and it seems to be automatically part of
the path to awakening that the more we are liberated within liberated from selfishness
particularly the more there is room for others so we always find this what one of the participants
has pointed out in the comment we always find this interrelation between looking outside
as we have here especially i found that point six very very very useful really know in what kind
of environment we are and adopt our behavior to that or point two when others say something
really try to understand what's the meaning behind that and then other things which are
more about ourselves like the participant pointed out that the meditation the quality number three
and then quality number five i also feel is very much about part knowing ourselves and these two
always interrelated so there's another comment i read it again it seems today it is considered
less important to know the dhamma well in this sutra might the importance of knowing the dhamma
well a sign of shift from practice to preservation the ma seems to be more practice oriented
i think that the importance of knowing the teachings well is something that we find
throughout the early discourses this is this is just just such a recurrent theme that i would
not think this is a it's a good question though but i would not think this is a sign of a shift
from practice to preservation the shift from practice to preservation is also historically
considerably later it's something that occurred at some point in the history of Sri Lankan Buddhism
about let's say four centuries after the buddhist time roughly speaking where
it was decided that in order to maintain the teachings the most important thing is to
dedicate oneself to the preservation of the actual teachings
and therefore the practice of meditation was kind of put in second place but i doubt
that this would underlie our present discourse we have some times a little conflict of that there's
an discourse in which Maha Chunda has to tell the meditating monks don't look down on those who
study and the study monks don't look down on those who meditate so so we get this slight friction
but i think the main impression that i get from the early discourses is that knowledge of the
Dharma is an integral and necessary foundation for the practice and this is sometimes nowadays
overlooked in the especially in the circles modern buddhist circles that give a lot of emphasis to
meditation where there is a little bit this feeling that all this theoretical stuff is
not really relevant for me all i need to do is practice practice practice
and for some people that definitely works i have i know cases where people have very
well progressed in this way but for others this is not the case and in my own practice i found
that acquaintance with teachings especially the early discourses has been absolutely crucial for
my practice i i like to compare that to yeast the and the wisdom input that we get from the
discourses is comparable to yeast which together with the Tao of meditation needed well
gives the kind of input that is needed for the bread of insight to grow
that is the simile i like to use for that
yeah the another question is about the nimitta sutta this is in the Anguttara Nikaya
it's on page 256 of the PTS edition
luna pala waga this is among the threes of the Anguttara Nikaya
yeah and so yeah there there there are all this it's not really a sudha this is a kind of
collected things in the Anguttara Nikaya it's there under number 11 but i mean i can i can
after the course is over i can i can just email you the the passage if you want the point i wanted
to make with that was just that this three-fold thing we get in the Madhyama Agama is not unknown
to the Theravada tradition there's another question i'm asking myself why these seven qualities
how do they compare to other indicators of progression on the path as for example the
eight-fold noble path yeah that is a very good question i'm also asking myself why exactly these
eight and and i would love to to hear more from you why you think these seven might be relevant
and those of you who have already done courses with me know already the last question you're
going to get what is the practical relevance of all this i mean can we can we make some some sense
out of this for our own everyday life perspective there's another comment here why the i wonder why
the Madhyama Agama and Anguttara developed such varying perspectives on the results arising from
the seven qualities here yeah this highlights another very very very significant difference
where from the Anguttara Nikaya perspective this is just well sorry i shouldn't say just but this
is about being worthy of support and a source of merit and in the Madhyama Agama it's about
developing joy and progressing to awakening so any of you any any comments either on the
significance of the seven qualities or on how can we make practical sense out of this
or on these different different results envisaged in the two versions please you're welcome to
write this in the chat box or if somebody wants to talk we can also try if the talking works but
last time we had the problem that this doesn't work so well and also another problem when you
are talking is that i will have to repeat everything because this audio recording i
have only records what comes in through the microphone not what i get through my headers
so for the time being i think still typing is the the safest thing for us to
continue and i hope in the future we will become more technically sophisticated
there's one question how can i see the whole presentation um i'm not sure what this question
is about um if you want to see the whole of the text here on the blackboard this is only
possible when i move things up and down and for the time being i have stopped at the place where
this summary is and if you're talking about the whole course that we are doing now then
this will after we have finished we have another half hour to go this whole course will be uploaded
on the internet you have received a link this this Olat platform and there you can either
see the whole video if your internet connection is good enough or else you can just click the audio
where i'll upload an mp3 file which just has the the the the the talking part without the text and
without the video but in the meantime i can just one time more move through but i think this will
be too fast just to see the discourse the seven qualities we had then the first was on all these
different ways of knowing the dharma this listing of texts and after each we get this repetition
part and then about the meaning knowing the meaning of this the meaning of that and then
knowing the proper time where we had the difference between the settling arousing equanimity in the
chinese version and the recitation questioning making an effort and seclusion in the padi version
and then uh in the substantial difference number four the restraint the clear comprehension while
in the angutra excuse me again we had the moderation then knowing himself knowing oneself
knowing those five qualities of faith virtual learning generosity wisdom and eloquence
knowing assemblies listing of the ancient the main assemblies in ancient india we can apply to our
modern day world by uh saying any different type of group of people and then this series of
superiorities so while i went through this there are some more fortunate some more comments in the
chat box so one is if the seven qualities are simply listed less monk specific they definitely
are conducive to join everyday living avoiding conflicts and growing internally quite obvious
that's a good point actually yeah
yeah good knowledge of the buddhist teaching understand the meaning know when it's time to
meditate be restrained or moderate yeah i prefer the moderate i'm sorry
no one's on strength and weakness i thought once behavior know how to yeah yeah actually that's
true yeah yeah i feel also more more this gaining joy and progress to awakening really is the flavor
that i get from these qualities if i look at them by myself and uh perhaps that is just my
western bias and my disinterested merit but i would not naturally say oh wonderful you know
i become a source of merit another question will the text not be made available yeah that is a
problem you see um the magyama agama translation is copyright and i am i'm i'm treading in uh
still barely allowable area by taking our little pieces and giving them only to a very restricted
circle of people but if any of you would copy this and put it out on the internet i would be in
trouble because these uh no matter people have the right to get this translation and publish them
and only after they have published them for i think some five years they will also be made
available on the internet so the interest that my course can give you is you get a first glimpse of
this uh chinese collection which so far has not been translated into any european language
but the disadvantage is you only get these light little glimpses and quickly i scroll on
and the time for you to really read this discourses will come later when the numerator
translation is published i'm sorry about that but this is just the constraints that the present
situation puts on us so here is another i would like to be able to have the text itself as a
download so that the notes can be compared with one reads in magima aguna anguta ranika is that
possible it looks as if it might be available as a pdf is this the case yeah as i already said
earlier the for the magima aguna this is not possible for the time being what i can offer you
is i have just completed uh the final preparation for the publication of my comparative study of the
magima nikaya so the Pali version i have used it as a basis and i've compared it with all these
extant parallels and this i can make available to you as a pdf so you would have a considerable
amount of material to do your own comparative reading if you wish and i hope that the magima
agama translation comes out this year or next year so then buying the book from numerator
you would have the actual text though numerator allows us only very little footnotes so many of
the differences that we have been discussing here in class will not be noted in the translation but
you would still be able to see that by placing the translation of the magima agama side by side with
the translation of the magima nikaya by bikubori or even if you are able to to read the original
Pali text and in the present case also of the Anguttara so here's another comment my impression
is that the eightfold noble path goes deeper and is more complex to understand while these seven
qualities are easier to understand as a direct instruction do this to that yeah that's actually
very good yeah i agree yeah yeah then that the eightfold noble path is much more central also to
progress it's so central actually it's it's the most central category in the early buddhist
teaching the four number two the eightfold noble path so so i think you are right that we should
look at these seven qualities as something more more self-evident maybe and as a complementary
to the central teaching of the eightfold noble path yes a good point but interesting as you
mentioned it just i just noticed that uh you know in the eightfold noble path
uh the first factor is right view and this first factor has a very important function
because we are told that right view is the quality that acts as a guide for the practice
of the noble eightfold path and here i find that of our seven qualities the first one is again the
good knowledge of the buddhist teachings and this good knowledge of the teaching is something to
which we will come in another two or three discourses i don't remember offhand that
we will look at next week the importance of of of having a good knowledge of the teachings
as something that that protects us and guides us this this links me a little bit back to the other
comment that was had been made earlier that uh there is considerable emphasis given
to knowledge of the dhamma let me just see if i find it again
yeah here the comment was it seems today it is considered less important to know the dhamma well
and i find that this discourse really throws that into relief the importance putting this
quality right on top number one and now the important parallelism or comparison we have
made to the eightfold noble path again shows us that this this this actually stands in the
position of of right view is this guiding principle good there's another comment by the same
participant of course there are also aspects that point into the right direction from my
simple understanding of the matter yeah yeah yeah and then there's another comment you said here
and in other places that monks refer to the whole assembly present how did you reach that
conclusion well i have reached that conclusion through my comparative studies because several
times there are discourses were only the vocative the bikavi is used but those who are actually
listening to the discourse are not only monks and it is clear also that the discourse is not only
meant to them so at times it can be only meant for monks but at times it is broader
and there's one particular interesting case another of the articles that i've just i'm
just about to publish there's the dhamma dinasuta the chula vedala suta in pali i'm sorry the
magimani kaya 44 and i have translated the tibetan version tibetan parallel and there's a
setting as there is a nun which according to the commentary uh story we are told the story that at
least the terawara tradition holds stands at the background of this discourse is that this nun
uh her husband had progressed to non-return as a lay disciple and had there on told her that he will
not continue his marital relationship as before with her and then she said then then let me become
a nun and she left became a nun went to meditate and came back very quickly after that and
in the meantime she had become an arahant but the husband doesn't know that so he goes there
and asks her all kind of very deep and profound questions and there's a little edge to that he
kind of wants to find out if she has really reached some realization or if she has only become
kind of bored being in seclusion and as part of that discourse i don't know about the pali version
of and i'm just opening it up while i'm talking here but in the tibetan version she also speaks
of the attainment of cessation and it is clear from the context that we should understand that
she has actually attained this herself but she still speaks in term of a monk let me see if i
find it here and quickly yeah here also in the pali also so she always says a monk a bhikkhu who
has attained uh cessation he has this and he has that but it is obvious that she doesn't mean to
say that it's only monks who attain cessation get this kind of expense it's also nuns obviously
this is just one small example that comes to my mind of hand but i have a number of such examples
found in my comparative study of the magimani kaya where i note them where where we find that
the vocative bhikkhu bhikkhu bhikkhu when used is not meant to give us this impression this is only
for male monastics so we have another 15 minutes
i could either still jump to the next discourse
or see if you have something to say or if we can get some idea on how to put this all into practice
so
yeah there's one comment here that in the advice to rahula rejoicing in one's good
qualities is also an important issue yeah that's actually quite true
is the rahula vadas with the magimani kaya 61 or 62 i don't remember offhand yeah
i sometimes see people typing but then nothing comes up in the chest so you have to you have to
hit the enter so that i can see what you have written i think the practical relevance is maybe
that the discourse puts emphasis on developing knowledge which is developing the skill of
reflection reflection on different aspects of daily life and your own practice oh that's a good
point yeah i have now already
changed so we can't see anymore those seven qualities
i still go back to the earlier one
yeah the seven qualities again
yeah i would like us to to to to to balance out you know sometimes i'm going to be a little
heavy on you with all this theoretical things and so many suitors in this chapter and all this
listing of textual types and things and i think this is also important this is part of an
academic course but i also like us to to finish our studies always with getting something practical
out of it getting some practical flavor and taste out of it so here's one question i wanted to ask
something about the text that you are working with this is just a practical question are bits
and pieces being found or extent collections now being translated made available the chinese texts
are no longer in the process of discovery they have been preserved and are available even in
digital forms only that so far the chinese discourse collections the early discourse
collection have received relatively little attention i think many of those who study
early buddhism are not even really aware of these collections of the existence of these collections
and then one has to really do a lot of language study also because besides pali one needs to know
sanskrit and one has to learn chinese and one also needs to know sam tibetan because we have
several versions in tibet and it seems that those who know chinese are mainly then in the
mahayana field mahayana and other discourses and treatises preserved in chinese translation have
been studied much more extensively now i'm not saying that the agamas have not been studied but
there is a recent upsurge in study of agama and comparative studies of which i think i'm a central
part as far as sanskrit fragments is concerned uh yeah it seems there's always something turning up
there have been the in in in after the political events events in afghanistan and some very
fascinating fragments have emerged and these are being now unrolled unpacked edited studied by
various scholars all over the world and so in the area of sanskrit fragments we will always still get
new discoveries new additions and hopefully also find new sanskrit fragment pieces
in the area of tibetan i think we are relatively limited the number of early discourses translated
into tibetan is relatively few but fortunately there is one particular work by a indian scholar
named shamatha deva he wrote a commentary on the abhidharma kosha abhidharma kosha bhasha this is the
a manual similar perhaps in type to the visuddhi manga of the terra vada tradition
and this abhidharma kosha quotes always small sentences from this sutra and that sutra
and shamatha deva has had the brilliant idea of providing for each of these short quotes
the whole passage or even the whole sutra and this work by him has been lost in india but is
preserved in tibetan translation and so this is a major source of parallels for tibetan versions
but what we have in tibetan what we have in chinese this there is not much of new discoveries
being made the real new discoveries is in the area of sanskrit and i need to add gandari
sanskrit and gandari fragments
yeah so i think we still have a short look at the next discourse
it's only 10 minutes left
this is discourse number two in the madhyama agama
discourse on the celestial coral tree parallel to the pari nshatakasuta in the anguttara nikaya
again we get the introduction standard at savati
at that time the blessed one addressed the monks when the leaves of the coral tree of the 33 gods
become withered the 33 gods are happy and rejoice saying the leaves of the coral tree will soon fall
the discourse continues by describing different stages of this coral tree a magical tree that
according to the information we have was held to be growing in the celestial realm of the gods of
the 33 a tree that has hundred leagues and circumference and the color of its flowers is
visible from 50 leagues away and the perfume travels 100 leagues so the devas rejoice when
the new leaves of the coral tree will soon appear the coral tree will soon grow buds the buds of the
coral tree will soon resemble a bird's beak the buds of the coral tree will soon open up and
resemble a bowl the coral tree will soon be in full bloom and when the coral tree is in full bloom
the radiance it emits the color it reflects and the fragrance it emits spread a hundred leagues
around then for the four months of the summer season the 33 gods amuse themselves equipped
with the five types of divine sensual pleasures this is how the 33 gods assemble and amuse
themselves beneath their coral tree it is just the same with the noble disciple when thinking of
leaving the household life the noble disciple is reckoned as having withered leaves like the
withered leaves of the coral tree of the 33 gods the discourse continues by illustrating the going
forth with the falling of the leaves the attainment of the first absorption with the new leaves have
appeared second absorption the tree is growing buds third absorption the growing buds resemble
a bird's beak and the fourth absorption the growing buds resemble bowls and the attainment
of liberation as the tree is in full bloom and when the noble disciple has attained liberation
the 33 gods assemble in the hall of the true dharma and sign in admiration praise him
the venerable disciple so-and-so from such and such a village or town having shaved off hair
and beard done the yellow rope and having left the household life out of faith to become a
homeless one having practiced the path he has destroyed the taints he has attained liberation
of the mind and liberation through wisdom and in this very life personally attained understanding
and awakening and dwells having personally realized he knows as it really is birth is ended
the holy life has been established what was to be done has been done there will not be another
existence this is how an arahant with taints destroyed joins the community of liberated ones
like the assembling of the 33 gods beneath their coral tree
yeah there's only very few differences with the anguttarani kaya version in the anguttarani kaya
parallel this proclamation about the arahants with his taints destroyed is also murdered
by different devas it goes to different celestial realms each realm repeats that
yeah and the main points of this discourse is this imagery this this this simile we get
withering leaves is leaving the household life the growing of buds is the
development of concentration by attaining absorption and the flowers in full bloom is awakening
we still have a few minutes time any questions comments on this main points or on the discourse
as a whole the ball is with you again
there's one comment that this sort of seems to be drawing an image of the going the path to
liberation through concentration meditation there is no mentioning of the possibility to achieve
liberation through wisdom meditation yeah i think this is an important comment that you make but i
don't think that this is the implication of this simile in the in in the in the early buddhist
discourses to to to assess such things we always need to look beyond the single discourse and in
general it is quite clear that the development of concentration alone is not sufficient for
a reaching liberation and i also think that this is not the point that this discourse wants to make
to tell us that just by getting the jhanas we will automatically get liberation i think the
way i understand the discourse and i'm glad you mentioned this so that we can discuss it
is just to to to to to to to show the absorption as an important aspect of the path to full
liberation and to give us this this imagery because yeah they could have brought in the
different stages of awakening as i'm thinking about it and also illustrated them that would have made
it more clear but i i basically what i would like to say to your comment is and that that
the point of this discourse is not to tell us that just by absorption we get full liberation
because i mean it's also mentioning going forth but it's not mentioning any kind of keeping of
the precepts and morality so we cannot conclude that without keeping morality it's possible to
get to full liberation it's just that it singles out certain aspects of the path to liberation
and illustrates these with different aspects of this coral tree no but it's very good that you
you mentioned that because i it hadn't occurred to me to read the sutra from this perspective and
it's it's nice to get the opportunity to clarify that so
here's another very good comment gods are playing a prominent role in the discourse
but it is rather difficult with our background to get much inspiration out of that so we miss
quite a bit that's actually quite true in fact this is one i have him on the other screen i have
my fire with the notes what i want to say to you regarding each discourse and i have a note here
that i should make say something about gods the thing is that early stages of reception of early
buddhism in the west were dominated by a view of early buddhist teachings as entirely rational
devoid of superstition
and in some circles this still continues
i do think that there is a kernel of truth in that the central teachings of buddhism are very
irrational but the entire world of early buddhism has a lot of mystic elements there are a lot of
gods that populate the discourses and come to see the buddha ask him a question and this all
seems perfectly natural and there's also supernatural events the buddha is born and
there's an earthquake and lightning and we get monks doing all kind of magical supernatural
performances in the present discourse this is not as obvious as it is in other discourses because
we could still consider this a mere parable a mere similarly taken from ancient indian thought
to illustrate the doctrine and i think this is the main implication of the present discourse
but and i'm happy that this comment has been made gods and devas and this type of beings are an
integral aspect of early buddhist thought and we would miss out on our understanding of early
buddhism if we were to only look at those rational teachings and not look at these other aspects at
all there's one last comment and at that point then we will conclude because i do not want to
over-text your time just wait for this comment to come
so
the image of the beautiful tree seems very well in accordance with the bliss that is reported by
people that attain states of absorption but the steps of absorption is more delightful than the
previous one very good point very good point is the bliss of leaving the household life behind the
freedom the bliss of absorption the bud and the happiness of awakening the flowers in full bloom
very well thank you but is it not a parallel occurrence of teaching a religion of the people
at that time i am not sure i fully understand that i i think maybe we take up this point next
time because we are we are we are getting out of time now so i think i i would like to conclude
our second discourse with this with this image of the leaves the buds and the full bloom and the
important comment made that that this experience actually the image of the flowering tree expresses
different levels of happiness of bliss yeah so thank you very much for your attention today and
also for helping me by actively contributing and making comments and putting questions and
i look forward to seeing all of you next thursday bye